I recently saw an ex-date. He didn't acknowledge me, but I still think he's a fine person and will make a good husband. I said this to my friend, and she was a bit surprised that I could speak positively about somebody who hurt me. So, that reaction is what triggered this post. Do we allow our emotions to control us?
Don't speak lashon hara about someone you've dated just because he hurt your ego. If he is, otherwise, a solid person who will make a good husband for somebody else -- then don't get in the way of the shidduch.
This seems like common sense, and like, DUH sefardi gal. But the thing is: it's not. Even in dating, one has the obligation of the beautiful mitzvah "v'ahavta l'reeacha kamocha." Don't let grudges and bitterness get in the way of someone else's opportunity for happiness and greatness.
Also, treat people you previously dated with respect -- don't bad mouthe them, don't ignore them and treat them as if they don't exist, don't bash their looks by saying how unattractive they are.
The key is to take yourself out of the picture and view every Jew as an individual who has similar goals as you do. You're not the only one who is struggling with shidduchim and hoping to get married. They are the future parents of your childrens' classmates/generation.
Daven for your ex-dates, try to suggest people for them, etc.
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I agree with your point, but I don't understand your friend's reasoning whatsoever. Why is it that a guy who says "no" to a next day considered as though he "hurt" you? If someone is a normal guy and simply thinks that the match wasn't shayach, why has he done anything wrong, or deliberately hurtful to you?
ReplyDeleteI'm not discounting the idea that there quite possibly were some very jerky guys also, but I don't think that someone saying no, for any legitimate reason, could be considered "hurting" you, when in actuality they are simply doing what they feel is right for you, in order to make sure that you get married to the right guy, and not end up with someone you may later think of as a mistake.
Shades - if someone just said no, then of course rejection isn't a justified reason to dislike the person. (It's arguable whether there's every a justified reason to dislike a fellow Jew.)
ReplyDeleteThat's an separate issue of an individual having his/her ego hurt.
I was referring to a case where I wasn't hurt because of rejection; rather, there was something this person did that was particularly tactless and hurtful.
The not acknowledging you was thing that was tactless and hurtful? If so, there is definitely a precedent for this sort of behavior, if done somewhat respectfully. Unless the relationship was ended on mutual and friendly terms, what else are you supposed to do? It is rather awkward, but it seems better (to whatever degree this makes sense) to not acknowledge any sort of previous connection than give people something to talk about... not sure if I'm really clear.
ReplyDeleteShades - perhaps I should be more specific. So, no, in this case it was something tactless that he did during the relationship. (The hurtful part was NOT his reaction post-break up.)
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, even if one just had a one-and-done and bumps into that ex-date, it's still proper to give a smile or nod or some form of polite acknowledgement.
If the relationship was semi-serious or serious, then I think it's NECESSARY (not just proper) to acknowledge the ex-date.
Now, obviously, if both/either of them is yeshivish (or in circles where basic socializing with the opposite gender is frowned upon), then they shouldn't acknowledge each other.
Hey,maybe I'm misunderstood, but do you believe a person should not acknowledge her/his ex-date just because they are from a yeshivish background? don't you think that it would be some sort of sinat chinam to ignore a person who were close to you for a period of time ( a serious date) for just nothing? I am not saying they should talk, but they can simply and respectfully say a "hi" to each other and no more. It's just my opinion.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous - good point, I kinda agree. Why "kinda"? Well...
ReplyDeleteIn theory, I think that any individual, regardless of frum level, should acknowledge an ex-date on some level. For me, that's "the ideal."
Now, I'm not yeshivish (not by my standards, anyway), so I'm not 100% sure how things work in yeshivish communities (like the haredi communities in geula, lakewood, monsey...etc.) but from what I understand...
if a gal went out with a VERY yeshivish guy, who meticulously keeps shmirat enayim and plans on learning in Kollel for at least 15 years after marriage, and then sees him at a local restaurant -- then it is inappropiate for him to say hi to her. The community might frown upon it.
So, if it's unacceptable for men/women to socialize even on that basic level, then it's also inappropiate to acknowledge an ex-date.
What if they were in a serious relationship? In my opinion, part of derech eretz is to acknowledge the person.
But I would understand WHY it would be looked down upon in very frum communities, and therefore, would not be done.
So...in summation:
in theory, I think it's appropiate for every guy to acknowledge his ex-date on some basic level.
But in practice, this might be technically difficult for very yeshivish individuals, and therefore, each individual should do as his social norm sees fit.
I'm really bad with faces, so after one date I kinda remember him looking different. So if I saw him by a wedding, I probably wouldn't recognize him.
ReplyDeleteFor many, if there was a possibility of hurt ego on either side, then acknowledging them in public would feel awkward or painful. Even after one date deep feelings can materialize, and a "no" can leave someone hurt. Having to casually say hello may be too much to ask.
But of course, someone saying "no" should not be taken too personally. The other person may fit everything you are looking for but not the other way around. Plus, there is that whole bashert thing. So what would be gained by cursing them out to all and sundry?
Sefardigal,
ReplyDeleteThat was a really beautiful post. It is so true though, what you are saying. At the end of the day, everyone just wants "the one." All those dates are just in search for "that one." Having that in mind, one knows that he/she will probably have to reject/be rejected by several dates...just because someone hasn't found their spouse yet, doesn't mean every other human being is worthless.
I liked the part about those ex-dates having children who will be friends with your children. I never thought about that.
Thank you for sharing this wonderful advice!
Princess Lea - you're right. Most of the time, after rejection, the pain is mainly because of a bruised ego. Maybe everyone just need to get over themselves.
ReplyDeleteEither way, I understand that a simple "hello" might not be so simple for every individual. But an acknowledgement shouldn't be too impossible -- you know, like a friendly smile or nod...
or some chocolate and a pina colada.
Tika4eva - great point! It's important for every single to keep in mind that the date is a person who has feelings. He has probably been rejected before. It's not like you're (general you) the only one in the world!